Christian Gregertsen's Leadership Portfolio

I love to argue… err I mean negotiate! Negotiation and Deal Making was a class that I enjoyed very much. I thoroughly enjoy debating as it is much a mental game of outsmarting your opponent and coming up with a clever ways to persuade them into getting what you want. During this class we had a lot of in-class negotiations in a role-playing scenarios, where you and partner were both given a background story and a goal to accomplish. You then had to negotiate with the other person in order to get what you wanted.

Two of the main things I learned in this class is to never let your emotions get the best of you. It is very important to keep your calm during a negotiation even if it does not go as well as you would like it to. The other thing I learned is to always get a verbal deal in writing before celebrating. During one negotiation I was able to trick a classmate into agreeing upon very unfavorable terms. He then later claimed we did not have the deal in writing when he found out everyone else in the class was willing to offer him a much better deal.

For our Leadership Portfolio we could pick between two assignments. The first option was to go out in the real world and negotiate a deal. An example of this would be going to a car dealership and negotiating the price of a car. The other option was to interview an experienced negotiator and then write a memo about the interview. I went with the second option and decided to interview Joe Black, a rapper from Atlanta.

TO: Suzann Bain

FROM: Christian Gregertsen

RE: Interview with Joe Black

DATE            : 3/21/09

The situation

The task was to set up a meeting with an experienced negotiator and deal-maker in my chosen field. Even though my bachelor is in Game Design and Development and my primary focus in the past has been on software development I am also interested in music. This was the reason I decided upon the Entertainment Business Masters instead of the Game Development Masters after carefully weighing my options. I spent the last year in Atlanta, GA, which is rapidly becoming a hip-hop epicenter. During my time in Atlanta I met hip-hop and R&B stars such as Young Jeezy, Ne-Yo and members from Outkast. During my time in Atlanta I met up with Edrick Bohannon also known as Bo, CEO of 24/7 Entertainment recording studio. We lived in the same high-rise and I let him use one of my cars for a photo shoot, we have kept in touch ever since. I decided that I wanted to interview either Bo or one of his artists to learn more about record label negotiations.

Choosing an appropriate negotiator

After contacting Bo I found out that he was extremely busy this week working on a music video for one of his artists, Black Frost, so I decided to interview one of his other artists instead. I decided to interview Joe Black, an up and coming artist I met the last time I visited 24/7 Entertainment’s studio. He is currently working on getting a record deal. He has been with 24/7 Entertainment for 1 year now and has a 50/50 contract with 24/7. He uses their studio and resources; in return 24/7 Entertainment gets 50% of any generated entertainment revenue. I called Joe Black to inquire if I could interview him. He said he had no problem being interviewed. We decided to do an email interview with a follow-up phone interview. The purpose of the email interview was to get most of the desired information in a written format for my records, and the phone interview would be for any clarifications I needed.

The negotiator’s background

Joe Black was born and raised in Atlanta, GA, on the Westside of town. He always had an interest in music and played drums in elementary school and the 1^st year of middle school. Joe Black did not originally aspire to be an artist. He was very athletic and had dreams of becoming a professional baseball players. He had been getting interest letters from colleges after his freshman year in high school and had attended junior Olympic games two years in a row. However since he had been playing sports since he was 4 years old he lost interest in it. Joe Black says that, “like most inner-city youth” his interest shifted towards getting money now, rather than in the future. He says that the possibility of street dreams became more realistic than the possibility of childhood dreams because you see and live them. By the time Joe Black graduated high school in 1996 hip-hop was becoming mainstream with labels like Death Row, Bad Boy and independent labels such as No Limit. Rap became the new hustle. Joe Black recently recorded a song with Ray Lavender called “Kick Rocks”. He has also recorded several studio quality solo songs including “Rubberband Grandz” and “Somebody”. In 2000 Joe Black was part of a duo called Blue Kollar. They went through numerous meetings with Ghettovision/LaFace, and K. Wales from Worldwide Entertainment/Priority. They finally sat down and had serious negotiations with Dallas Austin from FreeWorld/Capitol. Some of his most notable clients include Michael Jackson, TLC, Pink, Madonna and Gwen Stefani. However, they decided to not take the deal. As a solo artist Joe Black decided to partner with my friend Bohannon of 24/7 Entertainment. Joe Black currently has interest from Def Jam and Atlantic. Shakir Stewart, former Vice President of Def Jam had extended intent to sign him first quarter of 2009. Unfortunately his life was cut short by suicide. Shakir had been instrumental in signings of current Def Jam stars such as Young Jeezy and Rick Ross. A signing with Def Jam would certainly have skyrocketed Joe Black’s career as an artist. Def Jam is still interested in Joe, however Shakir’s death has been a major setback for the negotiations. In February Joe was flown up to New York to meet with Darrel “Dow” Jones, current vice president of Atlantic Records. Mr. Jones has also expressed intent to sign Joe. Joe Black is being flown to Los Angeles in a couple of weeks to meet with Shawn ‘Tubby’ Holiday, an A&R rep from InterScope records.

The negotiator’s deal making techniques

Joe Black stated that most label executives set up meetings to get to know artists on a personal level. He states that it is important to be yourself, his music portrays his character and lifestyle, and therefore it falls natural to him. Joe believes that it is important to separate personal interests and business, even though this might be hard when negotiating. It is important to not get too emotionally involved in the negotiation. He always tries to imagine himself in the position of the person he is negotiating with in order to anticipate their moves. He says it is important to differentiate yourself from the pack. If you are just like everyone else then there is no reason a person should choose to deal with you over someone else. He says when negotiating he doesn’t necessarily try to ‘sell’ himself, but instead tries to figure out what the other party wants and if he matches their criteria. He says there is no point in making yourself out to be something you are not in order to make a deal, because the deal would be made under false pretenses and eventually fall apart. Before going into negotiations with a label Joe Black researches both the label itself and its executives. He researches what projects they have been behind before, whether they develop new talent or hop on bandwagons. He tries to find out if the person he is negotiating with truly loves music or got the position he is in through networking. In the music business you can encounter both executives that love music and ones that are pure number crunchers. Joe Black says that one thing he admired about the late Shakir Stewart was that he loved to get new talent that he saw potential in and develop it. He says that if Shakir signed you and put energy behind your product it was almost guaranteed to be successful. He says that when negotiating with labels he lets Bo do most of his talking because he doesn’t want to come across as an artist “who knows everything”, but that he will speak up on issues he disagrees with. He says he tries to concentrate more on the music than the meetings. He says its important for him to let the record executives know how true he is to his music and how much love he has for it. He says that you need to figure out what ‘vision’ the label has for you and to make sure it matches your own. If you compromise on your ‘vision’ you become an unhappy artist. Since 24/7 Entertainment is a self-contained studio the label does not have to do a lot of work. They have their own recording equipment, their own producers and release their own mix-tapes in order to build hype. The main role of the label is publishing. This is a big plus for the labels as it minimizes their risk and costs. Joe Black also increases his own value by letting the label know that he writes music and that he could potentially write music for the label’s other artists as well. He states that even unsuccessful negotiations should be viewed as successes because hopefully you learned something from them. His final piece of advice is that when negotiating you should take your time and not rush into things.

What I learned about negotiation from the interview

We talked about the importance of networking. The Atlanta music industry is extremely tight-knit and almost everyone in the industry knows somebody that knows somebody. Knowing the right people can be used as leverage when negotiating. We also talked about the importance of finding mutually beneficial goals. For example, one artist might feature on another artist’s track for free, but the increased exposure mutually benefits both artists. One thing I learned was that it is important to make yourself as valuable as possible to the other party. You must make them believe that they need you. If you want a deal to go through you should try to focus less on how they can help you, and instead focus on how you can help them. Another item we talked about was how critical it is to take a genuine interest in the other party. Displaying interest in someone else is one of the best ways to make him or her interested in you. I also learned the importance of not rushing a deal or compromising your own values.  No deal is always better than a bad deal.

What I learned about myself from the interview

I learned how important it is to network. You never know when you might need someone for something. The more people you know the more likely you are to succeed in life. I used to be a lot more introvert than I am now. In middle school I did not like to interact with strangers, I did not network and had a fear of public speaking. I feel like none of those fears are there any more. I also learned more about how label executives operate. Even though the music business is not my primary focus I find it fascinating and could definitely see myself being part of it in the future.

Present what you learned about the role of emotions

I learned that it is important not to get emotionally involved when negotiating. You want to think logically and act according to facts, not emotions. If you get emotionally involved it could ruin a deal. A typical example of this is if you cannot agree on terms you might get angry. If you get angry there is a chance that you will start attacking the other party personally. If this occurs the other party might not want to ever deal with you again. However, if you remain calm you can walk away, think things over and then come back to the table for renegotiations.

Present what you learned about the role of research/preparation

One thing that Joe stressed is the importance of doing research. When negotiating a deal you want to research both the company and the person you will be negotiating with.  In the example of a record label you want to find out what type of artist they typically sign, what they expect out of the artist, the terms and conditions of deals they have signed with other artist, etc. You can never be too prepared. It is important to picture yourself in the position of the person that you will be negotiating with. The better you can imagine yourself in their shoes, the better you can anticipate the questions he or she might ask. This allows you to prepare answers for these questions prior to the meeting.

Present what you learned about the role of communication

Communication is a key concept when negotiating. You want to communicate as clearly as possible. It is crucial that both parties clearly understand each other. You should for example, avoid using sarcasm when negotiating. One of the best ways to go about a negotiation is to have the other party clearly define what they are looking for, then letting them know how and why you fulfill their criteria. It is important to call the other party ahead of time to reconfirm an appointment and make sure the time and agenda for a negotiation has not changed.

Conclusion

I learned a lot about negotiating through this interview. Some of the key items that stand out to me are the importance of research, not compromising your ‘vision’, and the importance of patience. I enjoyed this exercise and found it to be very useful. It also clearly demonstrated to me the importance of networking.  At FullSail the importance of networking is stressed so much that it almost becomes a cliché, however, everything they tell you about networking is true. Networking is key to success in the entertainment industry.

We also had to do a PowerPoint presentation in class on the person we interviewed:

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